Cross band repeat s...
 

Cross band repeat setup for future events  

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eladner65
(@eladner65)
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June 10, 2019 9:38 am  

Guys,

At P4P aid station 5, we found that we could not reliably hit the W0CFI repeater with our HTs when we moved down the trail aways, as it took us behind a hill.  While we did have my FTM-400 with us, it was less than portable.  With my HT only putting out 4W, I was only able to listen to the machine with my HT.

After the event we experimented with setting up Cross Band repeat on my radio with some success.  Here is a link about how to set it up. https://www.w5txr.net/upload/Yaesu%20FTM-400DR%20Cross-Band%20Repeat.pdf  

I was thinking, for future events, if we had a setup like this standardized, we would be able to greatly increase our mobility and flexibility with HTs.

My thinking here would be to setup W0CFI normally on channel A, and power set to 20W.  Channel B would be setup on VHF (pick an unused freq), with an RX tone of 100Hz and a power of 5W.  

HTs would have 2 options here, 1. They would be fully simplex on the VHF freq, and dependent on the crossband repeater. or 2. they could dual monitor, and W0CFI and the VHF freq, but Tx only on the VHF freq.

Is this practical? 

Thanks,

Ed L. (KE0TSD)


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AB0L
 AB0L
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June 10, 2019 10:28 am  

Used crossband all day at aid station 4. Worked fantastic. Even had a DMR hotspot running too!

AB0L (Formerly N0KAI)
-----
Kenwood TM-V71A, Kenwood TS-590S, Motorola XPR4550, TYT MD-UV380, Kenwood TH-D7A, BTECH UV-5X3, µBITX V5 QRP


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eladner65
(@eladner65)
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June 10, 2019 10:31 am  

What setup did you use for analog?  Would this be something we could standardize on in the future?


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AB0L
 AB0L
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June 10, 2019 10:41 am  

I had my Kenwood TM-V71A with me. Even ran it 100% on portable power all day after blowing the fuse on my truck's radio power line when I grabbed the wrong SAE adapter due to insufficient coffee in bloodstream. 🙃 

Great minds think alike. I already suggested to Dan we deploy crossband capable radios to each aid station next year. Plenty of members have the capability so it shouldn't be difficult to find enough. Makes HT setup for volunteers dead-simple too. Just a simplex frequency and tone.

AB0L (Formerly N0KAI)
-----
Kenwood TM-V71A, Kenwood TS-590S, Motorola XPR4550, TYT MD-UV380, Kenwood TH-D7A, BTECH UV-5X3, µBITX V5 QRP


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eladner65
(@eladner65)
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June 10, 2019 11:01 am  

Blown fuse sounds like an argument in favour of those Anderson connectors.  I'm thinking of setting up a connector terminal set near the back of my camper for exterior operations off of my solar array.  I still need a good plan for my antenna.

Thanks,

Ed L.


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AB0L
 AB0L
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June 10, 2019 11:11 am  

Oh, I use them. Eventually though, you gotta convert to what the device actually requires. Motorola in my truck is SAE. I already had an anderson power pole feed for my Kenwood, and the plan was to tap into the Motorola line, but grabbed the wrong SAE to power pole adapter when I left the house. With SAE there's "source" wiring and a "sink" wiring. I need to coffee-proof the adapters with better labeling. 

AB0L (Formerly N0KAI)
-----
Kenwood TM-V71A, Kenwood TS-590S, Motorola XPR4550, TYT MD-UV380, Kenwood TH-D7A, BTECH UV-5X3, µBITX V5 QRP


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Brian
(@fbrian)
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June 11, 2019 8:48 pm  

Ed & Jeff,

Some standardized format for multiple people using the same crossband radio at events makes sense.  Most people will be better off if they can program the HT ahead of the event instead of doing it on the fly at the event.  Using a PL tone is one of those that if you don't need it it is nice to not mess with it, but if some interference pops-up and you need it, you are glad you have it.  

Brian
K0FBS


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AB0L
 AB0L
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June 11, 2019 9:01 pm  

Because we're crossbanding into W0CFI, a PL or DCS on the input is basically a must. Otherwise other non-related channel traffic will get carried over. We could even use the same simplex channel for the whole event and separate stations by PL, further simplifying setup. Using an Elmering night prior to PRA supported events to handle any radio programming would be a great idea.

AB0L (Formerly N0KAI)
-----
Kenwood TM-V71A, Kenwood TS-590S, Motorola XPR4550, TYT MD-UV380, Kenwood TH-D7A, BTECH UV-5X3, µBITX V5 QRP


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Brian
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June 11, 2019 9:06 pm  

Jeff,

I think you are correct about having to use PL tones.  

An elmering night to get everybody's HT programed is a great idea.

I didn't follow you though on using different PL tones to separate stations.  

Brian
K0FBS


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AB0L
 AB0L
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June 11, 2019 9:11 pm  

For example:

Aid Station 1: 147.570 simplex, 100.0Hz
Aid Station 2: 147.570 simplex, 103.5Hz
Aid Station 3: 147.570 simplex, 107.2Hz

etc.

AB0L (Formerly N0KAI)
-----
Kenwood TM-V71A, Kenwood TS-590S, Motorola XPR4550, TYT MD-UV380, Kenwood TH-D7A, BTECH UV-5X3, µBITX V5 QRP


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Brian
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June 11, 2019 9:18 pm  

I see.  At first I couldn't see the reason, HTs at one aid station would not get into the crossband radio at another, but I can see the crossband radio at one station getting into the crossband radio at another station.

Brian
K0FBS


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AB0L
 AB0L
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June 11, 2019 9:24 pm  

Wouldn't want to double with yourself hitting 2 crossband bases at once! It's kinda shocking how far UHF/VHF can go with the right conditions. It's easy to talk to satellites over 400mi up with a couple watts.

AB0L (Formerly N0KAI)
-----
Kenwood TM-V71A, Kenwood TS-590S, Motorola XPR4550, TYT MD-UV380, Kenwood TH-D7A, BTECH UV-5X3, µBITX V5 QRP


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eladner65
(@eladner65)
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June 11, 2019 10:13 pm  
Posted by: N0KAI

For example:

Aid Station 1: 147.570 simplex, 100.0Hz
Aid Station 2: 147.570 simplex, 103.5Hz
Aid Station 3: 147.570 simplex, 107.2Hz

etc.

This is a great idea.  Further, we might want to set the tones on the simplex both TX and RX.  We could publish a basic CSV of other code plug for common radios (ie FTM400) for both station base and HT so people could be mobile between stations if needed.


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N4SJW
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June 20, 2019 8:38 am  

Jeff, excellent idea about cross band repeat with multiple CTCSS tones. Note, the W0CFI repeater has an outbound tone so set up your UHF side with both encode and decode CTCSS on 100.0. hz.

Just an FYI on simplex 2M Frequencies, see CCARC for 2M coordinated simplex frequencies, e.g. 146.565 or 146.580 (not 146.570). Just want to be sure we're not interfering with adjacent simplex channels. I scan 146.52, 146.55, and 146.58 and there is a lot of activity on all 3 freqs.

https://www.ccarc.net/wordpress/coordination/

 

Base: Icom IC-7410/IC-7100; Ant Double fed with 300 ohm ladder line to AH-4 tuner (160-6M) + Hustler 6BTV vertical, 6M OA-50 horizontal ant on 6M, OA-144 double stack on 2M, and OA-432 on UHF horizontal antennas. Mobile: IC-5100 Portables: Icom IC-51A and Motorola XPR-7550 HTs


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